What about for those who use "Hotmail on the Web"?

[ Reply to This | # ]

sorry.

---
www.homepage.mac.com/jonwilson

[ Reply to This | # ]

Mr. Obvious says: Then you would choose Other. :-D

I'd be happy to get you off Hotmail's paltry 250MB limit within one of my 99 free Gmail accounts.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hehe I don't use Hotmail. I was wondering for those who do :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

I've had my hotmail account for several years, never had to worry about that limit yet! But I'm not a packrat of messages, I try to keep things low. Back when the limit was 2MB, I only ran up against that 2 or 3 times.

I use Mail to get at my hotmail account and the work Exchange server, it's kind of nice to have one client that can get it all :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Never heard of it. Is that a pr0n site? Shouldn't it be spelled "Hotmale?"

[ Reply to This | # ]

One of the main things: it's better handling all kind of messages, with pictures, music, whatever. I get lots of newsletters, and in Entourage was a real pain, some with half pictures, or no pictures at all, or "strange font behavior".


[ Reply to This | # ]

Apple mail has a huge problem handling digest list messages. Or more accurately, it can not handle them in the same manner Eudora can. Eudora can be configured (simply check a box) to treat digest messages as a mailbox. By doing this, it makes it really easy to reply to a message. I myself don't subscribe to digest versions, but those that do aare doing themselves a dis-service by not using Eudora.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Pine handles all sorts of messages, too. If there are pictures, or fancy HTML formatting, or music, or anything else, it tells me that they're there, and then doesn't display them.

And that's just the way I like it. :-) [Insert diatribe about kids today, fancy-schmancy email clients, barefoot uphill both ways, et cetera, et cetera.]

[ Reply to This | # ]

Pine? But pine has that silly editor that has all these fancy, get-in-your-way control-commands. Elm is really the way to go, with vi configured as the editor. Kids these days, "pine," pshaw. [tongue firmly in cheek]

[ Reply to This | # ]

To be serious for a moment, Pine does actually let you use an alternate editor of your choice instead of the default pico.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I love Entourage but it seems outdated. My current favorite is Apple Mail which is just simple and reliable. Hopefully the next release of Entourage will break new ground.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I love Entourage for a few reasons: 1) high degree of customization possible by AppleScript; 2) killer rules/filters (but could stand improvement); 3) Saved searches for custom viewing (e.g. "Received since launch" or "From or To John Doe"); tight integration with calendar, to do list, notes, and contacts; 4) Project Manager; 5) "online access" to POP accounts. Weaknesses: can't create complex HTML messages (only simple ones); slow searching (improved now that Spotlight is integrated); no "format=flowed". The current version is 2004; it is definitely outdated. I believe the new version will be dynamite, probably late this year or early next.

---
Microsoft MVP for Entourage
AppleScripts for OE and Entourage

[ Reply to This | # ]

I don't know about CREATING complex HTML messages in Entourage (by all accounts ths doesn't seem possible), but just this week I came across a script (called "Send Complex HTML with Inline Files 2004" and widely available online) which allows you to embed existing comlex HTML pages into Entourage messages. A couple quick tests on my part have turned up no real problems...just the usual caveats to keep your HTML use simple...

[ Reply to This | # ]

I just wish Entourage would provide better integration with Apple's AddressBook and iCal (especially). I use Entourage because of the better interface and a better set of mail handling rules. Hopefully Apple will improve Mail... I'd rather use it...

[ Reply to This | # ]

With the latest Office update, the integration with Address Book and iCal is actually pretty good. My only complaint is that you can only sync one Entourage and iCal calendar (I would have liked to sync both my personal and work calendars).

[ Reply to This | # ]

Hi!

I use Gmail at home, where my iMac is. And Kmail in my Linux box at the job. Kmail is the KDE mail application and I find it pretty good. I combined it with Bogofilter to figth spam.

Javier

[ Reply to This | # ]

I'm wondering if anyone else is having this problem? Having dark-yellow bars against a blue background just does not show these poll results very well.

Back to the original topic...my main mail account is on a Linux server, so I still read w/ pine, but I have other mail accounts that I read w/ Apple's Mail app.

---
"I have seen the evils of procrastination, and I vow to change my ways tomorrow."

[ Reply to This | # ]

Maybe it only happens to those of us who use the classic theme.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I'll check the classic theme -- I didn't even look at the polls layout :)

-rob.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Yes, it is definitely a problem with the Classic theme.

[ Reply to This | # ]

And now, it's fixed!

:)

-rob.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I'm seeing dark green bars against a white background. What browser are you using? What Mac OS X Hints theme do you have selected in your preferences?

---
"You got to keep the loonies on the path."

[ Reply to This | # ]

Sylpheed all the way (with PowerMail a close second).

[ Reply to This | # ]

I LOVED mail.app on 10.3. Something happened with imap support in 10.4, I think it had to do with the spotlight integration, that made imap on tiget mail w/ novell imap unusable. I've been using thunderbird lately, which does the job well. Just drives me nuts that mail is so bad in the imap situation.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is imap support?
Regards, Peer Bentzen

[ Reply to This | # ]

IMAP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMAP
Great for keeping all your mail on the server, but dealing with it via a email client. the main advantage for me is that I can use a client app when I'm in my office, but when I'm home or elsewhere, all the mail is accessible via webmail. 10.3 dealt with it fine, wonderful support. 10.4 ends up trying to index over the network so much that it takes forever to read mail. The search isn't worth it to me, find in 10.3 worked fine.
P

[ Reply to This | # ]

I meant to mention that failing as well in my earlier reply. IMAP functionality is far better in Eudora. Heck even Thunderbird or Mozilla does it better.
The only thing I find Thunderbird/Mozilla has over Eudora is the "find as you type" search field. Very handy, but I am sure if enough Eudora users requested it, Qualcomm would add it. :D

[ Reply to This | # ]

When we upgraded to Service Pack 2 for Groupwise 6.5 all of those strange IMAP errors in 10.4 Mail disappeared.
As a work around, try changing the option under Preferences>>Accounts>>Advanced>>'keep copies of messages for offline viewing' to 'Only messages I've read'. This worked fine for us until we installed GW6.5 SP2.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I use Opera's built-in mail client (AKA M2). It's lacking in a few areas, but it's got GMail-like database views of e-mails with faster-than-spotlight search.

I've almost switched to Mail.app, but I can't stand its shallow "threading". I want infinite nesting of threads!

And I haven't found keyboard shortcut in Mail.app that goes to next unread message. In Opera I've got single key shortcuts for "mar[k] as read and go to next", "[g]o to next unread", "[h]old unread and go to next", etc. - very usable.


[ Reply to This | # ]

Mail.app uses the same convention that's been around since almost the beginning of mail/news readers... the spacebar. Pressing the space bar on the keyboard will page you through an email, then take you to the next unread message in that mailbox.

I've created a smartmailbox for "Unread Email" and spacebar through that rather quickly.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I've been using Mail.app for the past few years and decided to really give Entourage a try about a week and a half ago. Honestly, I think I like Mail.app better; but I like the integration between contacts, calendar, tasks, mail, and projects better in Entourage. There's some strange behavior in some messages in Entourage and I don't like the way it deals with images and attachments. Overall, however, I like the layout and integration better and think that I'll be sticking with Entourage for the foreseeable future.

[ Reply to This | # ]

As a business advisor, I have a number of email accounts. Interesting thing though: I deal with my personal non-work email accounts using Apple Mail and work related ones using Entourage in MS Office 2004. In other words, Mail for the casual stuff and Entourage for the professional stuff. Reason is that I manage my professional client relationships as individual 'projects' in Entourage's Project Center (I really wish Apple would come up with something like this). It also helps when dealing with clients who use Outlook on WinDOS. This setup also helps me with GTD stuff (see http://www.davidco.com/store/catalog/GTD-and-Entourage-p-16209.php) by keeping me focused on 'work' when working...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Have you tried setting up a GTD like system using iCal? Failing that I know there is a GTD setup for OmniOutliner Pro. It's called kinkless. Looked very interesting to me.

http://www.kinkless.com/

[ Reply to This | # ]

I looked at both Kinkless and OmniOutliner some six months back. However, in January I got involved in reviewing the beta version of 'GTD for Entourage' (see the URL in my earlier posting) and now run a somewhat bastardised hybrid on my Mac. However, since posting my last comment, I revisited Daylite from Marketcircle (see: www.marketcircle.com) which I looked at some 18 months ago and I have to say that I am really impressed at how it's evolved to now include some sort of email integration (not sure with what though). I am now contemplating a quick test of that application.

---
JG

[ Reply to This | # ]

I agree. I don't use Apple's Mail at all. I've tried each version, but I don't like the interface or the lack of powerful rules like those found in Entourage. Yes, Mail has some rules, but Entourage beats it. I think Apple should provide an interface for Mail like that in iTunes or iPhoto. I'd like to use Mail because of the better integration with other Apple programs (e.g. Address Book and iCal), but I can't make the switch until mail is improved. Right now I use Entourage for Address Book and iCal features.... (unfortunately...)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Eudora has lightning fast searches, is fast in general, and handles multiple accounts very easily. Plus I can have separate mailboxes open in separate windows.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh how could I forget! Multiple accounts! This is an awesome feature and it works really well! I use multiple accounts, multiple signatures and multiple stationery.
What can I say, it's a breeze to use!

[ Reply to This | # ]

All of those features and it is cross-platform so I don't have the hassle of learning three different email programs.

That said, Eudora for OSX needs an update.

I still love the program - I have an XP box running Eudora handling email from 5 domains and sorting, redirecting and (thanks to the spam filters) dealing with 50k spam a week and forwarding the legit mail to my .Mac and Gmail accounts.

Eudora for the Mac needs more robust filtering and a little better imap "delete" feature... but I'm a licensed owner of at least 11 copies .....

[ Reply to This | # ]

Apple Mail is still not as fast as Eudora in general, but it certainly does allow viewing any mailbox in any window if you choose File > New Viewer Window and select a folder. I use that all the time, any number of windows you want. And since Apple Mail incorporated Spotlight, searches are now comparable to Eudora for my uses. I used Eudora faithfully for over a decade, but put up with Eudora's aging codebase and bewildering UI up until Tiger, when Apple Mail finally reached a state where I converted my mailboxes (use Eudora Mailbox Cleaner, not the built-in Mail converter) and abandoned Eudora forever. Now I am perfectly happy with Apple Mail and its integration with the rest of OS X, while Eudora languishes.

At least I didn't make the mistake of claiming Eudora superiority based on Apple Mail observations that are a version or two out of date.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Eudora's also the only app I know that hasn't gobbled up more and more screen real estate as time progressed and screens got bigger. There's no way I could keep the same amount of information (messages/mailboxes) open in Mail.app and still have half my screen unobscured for working with that information....

Eudora also uses an industry-standard mailbox format, so that if I do ever find something else that meets my needs, it will be easy to switch.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I use Apple Mail, which does the job just fine. I would switch to something better, but I have yet to find a mail client that transparently uses the OS address book. That's a show stopper for me.

---
www.automatorworld.com
"Better Living Through Macintosh Scripting"

[ Reply to This | # ]

Entourage syncs just fine with both Address Book and iCal, that was one of the updates in version 11.2.3.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SquirrelMail is my mail of choice. I have my own domain and email with a virtually limitless amount of space. Of course if I could pay Apple for a domain name with ssh and php abilities, then I'd prefer the .Mac email interface, but, well, I don't use my .Mac mail, so I don't use the .Mac mail interface. My ISP offers Horde, SquirrelMail, and some other thing as webmail access, and SquirrelMail works for my needs.

Oh, work? Outlook. Can't live without it, but that's professional volumes of mail for professional use. If I have to process as much mail at home, I'd use Entourage, or even better, I'd figure out how to elimate the mail -- it's personal life for God's sake; just pick up the fsck'ing telephone!

---
--Jim (me)

[ Reply to This | # ]

My ISP provides webmail via Squirrelmail, and it's a mixed bag for me. I use Mail.app for daily use, but sometimes (whenever away from home) I have to use it on the web.

I'm not sure which version my ISP is running, they are notorious for running old junk versions forever.

Some real frustrations: the non-updating of the folder list means if I throw something into the trash, I have to refresh that pane to get the "Empty Trash" link. Feh.

And since I get and delete a lot of spam, I frequently get pages upon pages of inbox mail. Sometimes the inbox doesn't update itself after a delete, so I get the same listing after refreshing! I have to go back to the inbox to force it to redraw.

Not your problem I'm sure, but I started venting and there we go. :)

Darryl

---
Madness takes its toll.
Please have exact change.

[ Reply to This | # ]

"GnuMail"? Do you mean Gnus?

[ Reply to This | # ]

No, GNUMail.app.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I use Apple Mail because it does a lot of what I want it to do and it does it well. It is far from perfect. It handles media files well most of the time, it displays HTML based mail very well. It is very easy to use. It handles my regular mail accounts, my dotmac account and checks mail from all my gmail accounts.

What it sucks at is not being able to create HTML based email. The display is black on white, only. You cannot change the colors of windows and text to fit what might be better for you. Even Terminal has this feature. If I delete gmail messages they are not delete from my gmail account.

[ Reply to This | # ]

"If I delete gmail messages they are not delete from my gmail account."

That's just how GMail works. It has nothing to do with Apple Mail.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I use Horde/Imp on a day-to-day basis because I can use it from anywhere and it has nice GPG/S\MIME integration.
If I'm dealing with larger folders (50k+ messages) I prefer Thunderbird and the threaded display option. Again GPG Integration (using enigmail) is of key importance.
I also need to be able to alter my from-address at will since I use different aliases for different purposes..thats why I never bothered with mail.app.
In addition mail.app does not give me any progress report when opening a folder, so there is no way to know whether the connection is just slow or broken just by looking at the app.

[ Reply to This | # ]

"I also need to be able to alter my from-address at will since I use different aliases for different purposes..thats why I never bothered with mail.app."

Apple Mail can do this. Mail > Preferences >Accounts > Account Information just add the extra email addresses on to the 'email address' line, separated by commas. They'll be available the next time you compose/reply in a drop down box (copied from http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=2112595).

[ Reply to This | # ]

Oh well. Guess we're the 1.23 % "Other" then!

[ Reply to This | # ]

OK, it's not my "favorite" but it IS the one I use. Am I completely alone in using Notes on a Mac?

[ Reply to This | # ]

There are a lot of us out here who like an integrated browser/email client, otherwise Seamonkey wouldn't be a project.

I worked in an Apple call center a few years ago, and was the only agent that used Mozilla at the time. I was also the only agent who could open all the scheduling attachments, which often had to be reformatted and resent so Mail could handle them.

Every customer who called with a Mail problem (and there were zillions, we all disliked Mail) with their ISP and was willing to experiment could access their email perfectly with Mozilla. I have a reasonably-sized group of people I support, and I have no email and few browser issues (Yahoo video, for one) with Mozilla/Seamonkey.



---
Nothing is Disposable

[ Reply to This | # ]

I use Entourage for my Mac. I am on an exchange server and use a direct push for my email, contacts, tasks, and appointments between multiple computers and my pocketpc phone. It is the only solution I have found that integrates those items and plays relatively well with XP, OS X and Windows Mobile, and keeps all of those devices\computers in sync.


[ Reply to This | # ]

Why you say?

I've tried Apple Mail and Mailsmith (and a few others) and they just can't cut it for me. First of all, I'm in the "e-mail is supposed to be plain text" camp. I detest html e-mail. That brings me to the number one flaw in Apple Mail.

Apple Mail Problems

1. If someone sends you an html e-mail, it will show the html content by default. You can switch to the plain text content, but it reverts back to html the next time an html message comes in.

2. You cannot specify line wrap length.

3. You cannot disable format-flowed.

4. Only one mode for displaying quoted text.

5. Only supports "S/Mime" out of the box.

Mailsmith Problems

1. You cannot enable format-flowed.

2. If you specify any semi-normal line wrap length (60-120 characters), it will force a hard wrap in long URLs thereby "breaking" them so they are not clickable.

3. It uses quoted printable encoding when it's not necessary so you get "=20"s all over the raw source of your messages.

4. Only supports PGP "out of the box".

Why Thunderbird Rocks

1. Extensions. Just like it's brother Firefox, you can do about anything with extensions.

2. You can put into a 100% plain text mode.

3. You can specify line wrap length and it will leave long URLs intact.

4. You can specify what encodings to use and when to use them.

5. You can toggle format-flowed to your desired preferences.

6. You can use either original quote characters (">") or the new fancy vertical bars for quotations.

7. Through the userChrome.css file, you can make the mail client itself look however you want it to look. Mine looks like Tiger's Mail.

8. Supports S/Mime "out of the box" and OpenPGP through the Enigmail extension.

Basically, you can turn it into the mail client you want it to be.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I can't address your other Apple Mail issues (and I must say that it has enough quirks to keep me from using it as my default mailer), but you can set it to show plain text by default:

defaults write com.apple.mail PreferPlainText -bool TRUE

[ Reply to This | # ]

I have tried this setting. However, when someone sends HTML e-mail, it defaults to the html content rather than the plain text. I have no idea why.

[ Reply to This | # ]

You say

Apple Mail Problems
   5. Only supports "S/Mime" out of the box.

Why Thunderbird Rocks
    8. Supports S/Mime "out of the box" and OpenPGP through the Enigmail extension.

Well Mail.app does support GnuPG from MailPG (or something similar, look on macupdate), which is a simple extension so I don't believe this is a fair point. Not to talk about the fact that you don't look at Thundermail's problem, which are very similar to Firefox. For example: the lack of mac integration (no keychain, services, etc), slugish and kinda ruff.

On a side note

As far as webmail goes... I do like gmail, but Roundcube looks very promising and isn't a separate email service, which I find better as I can continue to use my exisiting imap account. It'd be nice if gmail allowed you to use their interface for external pop/imap accounts (although, I'm not I do trust them ;o)

---
MacBook Pro 2.16Ghz / 2Gb / 100Gb 7200rpm / CD/DVD±RW
PM G4 DP 800 / 1.25gb / 120Gb+80Gb / CD/DVD±RW/RAM/DL
- The only APP Smurf

[ Reply to This | # ]

Thunderbird to access the same mailbox under Linux/ppc and Mac OSX on my dualboot iBook and even across the network under i686/Linux and i686/Windows.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I prefer Entourage, but Groupwise 7 looks very nice for Novell environments. Groupwise 6 was awful.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I guess it's sort of implied with gmail and others, but still. What email services do we all use. Sure, there's the employer's or school's email, but I'm sure most of us have non-work emails.

My response: been using fastmail for some time now, and it's great.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I use GyazMail. It has a simple and easy interface. There is just one thing and Mail, to my mind, has the same problem: the way these handle partial downloads of large emails. Don't get me wrong, I reeeally like Apple's Mail. What puts me off is the way it informs the user that there is a big message (over the prescribed size that the user specified in Preferences/Accounts/Advanced) on the server, Do you want to download dialogue box etc. The way this is implemented, you have to sit with Mail and make a decision with the dialogue box, or else it downloads the message anyway? Gyaz uses the combined message ****The Result of Filtereing**** to show all large mails on the server. You then have to go to the Remote folder to organise whet to download or delete. I have to say that Entourage has the method of handling this sort of setup with the extra column in the message list with broken envelope icons.

[ Reply to This | # ]

... and looking at the alternatives, it still seems as if this won't change so soon. But there is hope.

[ Reply to This | # ]

All things considered, Mulberry is/was my favorite IMAP MUA. I switched to Mail after the ISAMET/Cyrusoft bankruptcy and it'll probably remain my primary OS X MUA until there's a more satisfying alternative. Even with many shortcomings, Mail is still the most preferable and usable for me compared to other choices.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Using Mail.app but have been looking for a replacement since 10.0 ....

- Mutt - is nice but I'm way too lazy to configure it on all the macs and other computers I need to use, and I can't just ssh or ARD on the work or home mac either.
- Kmail - is nice but feels pointless on OS X
- Anything mozilla based : still no integration with AddressBook, and way more annoyance getting the encryption working
- Pine : err no. Can't use sendmail the way I'd prefer at work, so need to stick to the usual mail applications
- Eudora : tried a month ago the last time. Still the feel and touch it had in the 1990s, and I'm not sure I like that any more
- Gyazmail : ... stuck in the gui and features of 10.3
- Entourage : keeping your mac microsoft-free: priceless

So after trying again everything from mutt to sea monkey and eudora to pine via gyazmail, nothing was what I wanted. Or rather needed.
- support for 2 GB + mailboxes, I don't like splitting them manually
- a lot faster and better search than in mail.app
- smarter filters than mail.app
- needs GPG support
- mail rules that work (so no more magically disappearing messages)
- addressbook seamless operability

Too bad there isn't anything like Adium for Mail...

---
Giaguara

[ Reply to This | # ]

I am working on a new IMAP client, hopefully it will be listed on the next poll :) If you curious you can find out more about the client at Kiwi

[ Reply to This | # ]

I would LOVE to get a new account for personal use (my old one is compromised with spam), and Gmail looks great. I also want to keep using Apple's Mail.app for all my accounts, from TWO different computers. Unfortunately, Gmail doesn't support IMAP so although I could *check* my Gmail from any of my Macs with Mail.app, the fact that I have to use POP to do so makes mail management way too tedious.

Anyone have any ideas for how to make Gmail support IMAP, or to make POP in Mail.app seem more like IMAP? Thanks!


[ Reply to This | # ]

I dont like the way mailapp and entrorage run the mail store...but i use them each for things they do better. I use Thunderbird mostly.
I spend a fair amount of time admin'ing outlook, and outlook/exchange/entOutrage integration is lame.
i also use gmail and yahoomail.
It's nuts..nothing does everything, and I have to be a damn jedi mailmaster to sorta make it all happen.
Every few weeks I take a look at another client.
One of these days I'll be back where I started too damn long ago...Pine.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I loved Eudora and was a devout user for around 10 years. Just this past winter, I finally got fed up with not being able to read the majority of the HTML emails I was starting to recieve... from other people in my own company no less.

Mail.app, at least on my current machine is dog slow compared to Eudora, and it is very slow opening some of my larger mailboxes. Hopefully that will improve next week when my new MacBook Pro arrives.

I still miss Eudora, but it would take a major update to make me think about switching back.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I like Apple's Mail a lot, but stopped using it because it didn't display HTML formatted mail constantly. I haven't used the Tiger version, which is probably better, because I've been using Entourage for a while now.

Also Entourage has the built in calendar and address book, which is handy.

---
G4/Digital Audio/1GHz, 1 GB, Mac OS X 10.4.6 • www.david-schwab.com

[ Reply to This | # ]