I've never used iCal. I love the way Agendus (on my Palm T|X) displays icons for every event. I can glance at the calendar and see exactly what I have planned for the month. If I need more info, I go to another view, but for the most part, a glance is all that is needed.

Just too bad that iambic doesn't support Mac at all!

iCal, especially on my new iPod is completely useless to me.

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Iambic doesn't need to support the mac. The Missing Sync http://markspace.com/missingsync_palmos.php synchronizes Palm to iCal, Address Book, etc. It'll keep everything neat and tidy on your mac, perfectly reflecting Agendus.

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Agendus does not sync to the Mac. It is a separate app with nothing similar on a Mac. I did say I *never* use iCal. Having The Missing Sync to sync a program I do not use is pointless. I use Agendus on my Palm as my calendar app. Iambic does not offer a desktop version for Mac.

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I didn't like the new interface at first, but now I do. The key was re-discovering the use of Command-I to bring up event details and to save changes after making edits.

I find I don't have to to take my hands off the keyboard as much, and the information about events is easier to read right on the calendar rather than off to the side in the drawer.

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It seems to me that the new iCal interface is biased towards reading of existing info. and against editing of the same. I suspect that as more new Leopard applications take advantage of the public CalendarStore framework to manage either all calendar information or specific subsets, this bias within iCal will lessen in significance. iCal is now just one view of a system-level database, and I'm sure many more apps with different views will emerge in the weeks and months to come.

Personally, I don't write enough information directly into iCal for the new format to make too much of a difference to me -- but I can see how, if I was creating lots of tasks or events, it might.

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I always felt like the info window on the older version got in the way. I know that sounds strange considering the 10.5 version has the pop up appear over the calendar, but the difference is that there is less disconnect now between the event and the events info. I think it's more apparent how to use iCal than before, particularly for new users.

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the ical for leopard is a major step back in usability, in my not-at-all-humble opinion. It's bad enough trying to view the events in, say, week view. But when it comes to editing them, a total nightmare. What used to take one click now takes at least 3 if you are right click happy, or more if you are a double-clicking connoisseur.
And then heaven forbid an event has more than a few lines of info, as good luck trying to see that before breaking into swearing-mode and inducing carpal tunnel again.
I REALLY like being able to drag files into the new ical ,pertinent to an event, that you can actually double click to launch (unlike the old version) but that's too high a price to pay for the other drawbacks.

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I forgot to mention: whereas I used to used menucalendarclock for ical because of it's convenient menu bar calendar (really, where do they get these cray-zee names from? ;) ) now it's indispensable for being able to view the ical entries without having to resort to ical. So indispensable I might even pony up the 20 bucks shareware fee now. More so since 20 bucks is about £2.50 in real money these days ;)

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Personally, I hate this change: before, you could easily browse a ton of events (and their details) with a glance at the sidebar as you used the arrow keys to move from event to event. Now I have to use Command-I and Escape to open and close windows as I move around.

-rob.

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Frankly, I don't get what all the complaining is about. I've been using iCal for years for everything that I do; I track every event and appointment in it, have every birthday, anniversary, personal notable date, etc., in it as well. In short, there probably aren't a whole lot of people who use iCal _more_ than I do.

The latest version is a significant improvement, in my opinion, over the Tiger-based version. I don't know why there's so much whining about clicking and double-clicking... I never (OK, rarely) even use the mouse. When I want to create a new event I simple hit "Cmd.+N"; if I want to edit an existing event I use the tab key to get there (if it's close to where the highlighted event is, otherwise I'll revert to the mouse) and then hit "Cmd.+E" to enter the edit mode. Use the tab keys to cycle through the editable fields; when you're done, hit the Escape key to save all the info (or tab down to the "Done" key - either way works the same) and you're set.

You can change the calendar type within the editing window, too... after you've tabbed to the Calendar field hit the Space bar and it brings up the drop-down menu showing all the calendars - then use the cursor to get to the one you want and hit the Space bar again.

Could it stand some improvement? Sure. It needs an integrated Notes function (putting it Mail is downright stupid) that syncs with the iPhone. It doesn't always hold my window position for the calendar bar on the left side of the main window, but it does hold the window size when switching between day, week and month views (all of which are also easily accessible via keyboard shortcuts). The preferences leave a lot to be desired - I'd sure like to personalize it more microscopically - but generally do the job.

In short, those who are whining about it need to take a closer look. I've tried them all, including PDA calendars starting as far back as the original Palm, Google Calendar, Yahoo Calendar and others. iCal offers the clearest interface and most flexibility. I love it.

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Great, so it's better at creating and editing events (in your opinion). My complaint is about browsing existing events. In the old setup, it required zero effort to see the event details. In the new setup, I have to press Cmd-I for every single event just to see the details ...and then press Escape to close that window. Repeat ad infinitum.

BTW, this all relates to month view. Daily and weekly views are useless to me, as I have too many longer-term projects that I like to be able to see at a glance.

-rob.

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While I prefer the old method of an event's details sticking around on the screen, there's a couple of shortcuts which make the new method more bearable:

- If an info window is open you can double-click another event or just click somewhere else in the calendar to dismiss the window (no need to click Done)

- Instead of double-clicking an event and then clicking Edit, single click the event and command-E

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If it helps, you can just hit command-I again to close (you don't need to move your fingers to escape)

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I like both, and would like to have both. :)

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That's all I care about...the icon in the dock now shows the correct date all the time, instead of forgetting it between logins. No more looking in the clock menu to see the date.

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Amen brother... I thought I was the only one who appreciated the current-date-in-icon thing!

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I think the cure for the missing drawer is an inspector palette, ala iWork, or Omni apps.

-P


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You had this exact option in 10.4, actually. If you went to the Menu bar, under Window>Detach Info panel.

THat's what I used to use, as it would pop it up when ical was active, but when something else was the frontmost app, it disappeared, saving screen space.

I prefer that way. I thought I'd like the little window, but you lose things with it. I could drag/drop text into the notes field from anywhere. Now, I have to copy/paste...

---
timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a raindance
http://www.randombob.net

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I used the list view of iCal a lot.

Find all 2006 appointments and drop them into a separate calender to get them out of sight but keep them at hand if you need to find some info about old projects... gone.

And I could not figure out a smat list to do the same job for me...

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I didn't had any problem with the drawer always visible. The only thing that was bothering me was when I used iCal on my laptop... Which make the Leopard pop-up suddenly more appealing...

Some people said that iCal UI was now worst then in 10.4... Personally, I kind of like it. So far, the only *real* bugus for me was the lost of the "View Today's date" (the diamond shape symbol). It's pretty annoying...

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To view today's date, click the big 'Today' button at the top-left of the toolbar...

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(Or command-T)

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Ooops... my bad. I was so used to see near the calendar (which makes sense)

Tanks.

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I must agree with Rob here. Where is "Show/Hide Result List"?
That was sooooo useful to me. You could see really quickly what's coming up for the next few months (or at least, weeks). I also used that a lot to clean-up past events...

I want the "search/show/hide results" panel back!


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The problem with the Leopard version is that it represents a huge step backwards in terms of functionality. I used to leave the drawer open 24x7 - literally, I never close iCal, and in Panther/Tiger the drawer was ALWAYS there.

In Leopard, that info pane is gone. I don't really care whether the GUI is a drawer, an info pane, or another panel on the same window, but they need to restore the functionality. This new double-click to open, edit, click "done" to close - it really sucks. They have taken what used to be a single-click process (or a keyboard-select process) and turned it into a tedious multi-click ordeal.

I used to be able to have readily available notes on many to-do or calendar events, and now the only way to see those is to double-click the event to bring up a hovering window! IMMEDIATELY iCal lost a HUGE amount of its benefit for me. Come on, Apple - give us a good UI! It doesn't have to be a drawer like it was in 10.4, but there needs to be a way to make it always visible, and it needs to be 100% controllable by keyboard, like the Tiger version was.

I encourage everyone here who has a concern about the new interface to contact Apple to let them know about it.

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Hate to be piping this all over but iCal 3 is a total disaster. It is a major step down in terms of productivity and not just because of the drawer issue. The major show stopper is that it responds to AppleEvents up to 20 times slower than iCal 2 on Leopard. One of the Mac's big advantages is the integrated application aspect of it. iCal is not the greatest calendar program, but the promise of being able to DO THINGS with your information outside of iCal is a big one. Leopard killed that. Any attempt to interact with iCal data via AppleEvents, if your iCal database is big enough, results in a permanent iCal hang. Plus the major under the hood problems have not been resolved -- the way iCal deals with recurring events involves parsing a recurrence string.

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I understand your frustration with existing code that uses Apple Events.

However, Leopard introduces the CalendarStore framework, which gives access to iCal's underlying data directly, and is far, far quicker. So while existing code may have slowed down, developers should be able to start migrating to incorporate even faster access to the data using a more direct route.

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I enter my events into Google Calendar and use Spanning Sync to move the events into iCal, so that they will show up on my iPhone.

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I don't use iCal, but I have tried it in both 10.4 and 10.5 and I voted to 10.4. In 10.5, it took me a minute to figure out that none of the buttons create a new event (why there is a button for new calenders but not new events is beyond me). Once I figured out how to make a new event, it took me a little longer to figure out that I had to double-click to edit it.
You can chalk this one up as another feature highly touted by Apple that, well, sucks.

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I just don't understand why I can't open multiple calendar windows. What if I want a window for month, week and day view?! argh.

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Altho I am more a fan of the pop OUT Side Tray - I think they should bring it back AND allow for the Pop Up Note thing that is in the new version_

Apple is always too much in the school of thought to give us ONLY one option OR another option [one at a time] - but then they always "preach" choice for the customers_ So thhey end up being two-faced_

If they kept a really great feautre in - and in the Prefs allowed for a Toggle to change between the "original" feautre and the new "innovative" feature that would solve the issue and create a best of both worlds and allow for Apple to live up to it's statements to it's customer abse of choices_

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Can't Apple take a leaf out of Google's book and incorporate the simple intelligence in Gcal's 'q' keyboard shortcut that brings up a text box into which you can type something simple like:

Lunch with Diggs tomorrow 12.30pm at The Academy

and Google will be bright enough to enter an appointment that lasts for whatever your default time is at 12.30pm on tomorrow's date with the details Lunch with Diggs at The Academy.

And then to go one step further it would really rock if they incorporated a system-wide keyboard combo to bring this up irrespective of what app you were in at the time, and that just entered the details and faded away afterwards without ever bringing iCal to the front (like Omnifocus' quick entry system).

---
No, really. This is a healthy obsession.

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These changes really bother me as well. What's the best way to complain to Apple to urge them to change it? I've never complained before...

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Send feedback relating to the "usability" of the new iCal.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/ical.html

Maybe...just maybe.. .the UI team will show some humility and give the users an option to return to the ALWAYS SHOWN functionality of an info pane.

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